Curse

octaviancmb · Oct 23, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Which is the best “echo” elite for you: Mantra of Recovery, Glyph of Renewal, or Echo? Obviously, Echo and Glyph of Renewal are attractive elite skills because they are unlinked to any attribute, but in what situations is one better than the other? This strategy thread explores the question; feel free to post your own thoughts.

Echo: Echo is useful when there is a single skill on your skill bar that recharges quicker than 15 seconds that you would like to spam. I prefer Echoing skills that recharge within the 5-10 second range, since this lets you get 2-4 extra uses of the skill before Echo itself must cool down. Echo works with both skills and spells, so it works equally well on Warrior and Ranger skill bars as well as on any caster’s bar. Arcane Echo is a reasonable (though high-energy) substitute that has the added benefit of being able to copy a spamable Elite.

Monk, Necromancer, and Ranger skills work particularly well while Echoed. Skills like Mend Ailment, Precision Shot, and Shadow Strike are amazingly effective already, but when doubled they can turn the tide of battle in your favor. Beastmaster Rangers should consider Echoing Disruptive Lunge to effectively shutdown and kill their targets (or Ferocious Strike as an Energy engine). There are also some hyperefficient elite spells you might consider Arcane Echoing, for example Spiteful Spirit.
Glyph of Renewal: GoR is useful when you wish to “spam” (I use the word liberally) a spell that takes 15 or more seconds to refresh. It works particularly well on spells that have a recharge rate of 15 seconds, and beyond that, the longer the cooldown rate of the spell, the better off you’ll be by GoR’ing it. When used with a 15-second cooldown spell, you guarantee yourself a doubled casting rate, and can immediately use the Renewed spell once you’ve cast it the first time. When used with spells with very long cooldowns (Meteor Shower, Swirling Aura, Divine Spirit, Vengeance, etc – anything on a 60 second timer), you essentially lower the refresh rate to 15 seconds (the rate at which GoR refreshes) as long as you don’t immediately cast that spell again (you need to wait for your Glyph).

I’ve found Elementalist and Mesmer professions gain significant advantages under the new GoR, since each of these professions have a large number of long-recharge spells (anything in the 20-60 second range).
Mantra of Recovery: MoR is useful if you are a Mesmer primary with several spells on your skill bar you would like to spam. Spells that have cool down times of 5 – 20 seconds are particularly enhanced while under MoR, effectively doubling your skill bar. There are three drawbacks. You must devote a large amount of attribute points to Fast Casting (which will limit your focus somewhat). You must run an excellent energy management strategy. Finally, MoR is a stance, and will be interrupted by any other stances you might be running (like Distortion): you’ll have to choose some other means of defense to benefit from this elite.

cmb
--After-initial-post edit--
Arcane Mimicry: A non-elite that can be used to "echo" an ally's Elite skill. The copy will last 20 seconds, but then AM suffers from a 60-second cooldown. Best results when copying an Elite that has an extended duration (Elementalist/Mesmers, for example, could get a lot of use out of Elemental Attunenment) or as an emergency spammable Elite (Mesmer/Monks could snag Word of Healing when in a pinch). It's long cooldown makes AM less than ideal unless you have some other means of recharging it faster once it's in cooldown (a primary Ranger with Oath Shot, for instance).

Ollj · Oct 23, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

never compared that way.

keep in mind items make skills/spells recharge twice as fast with a chance of 10, 20 or 44%.

echo also works on skills that recharge longer than 45 seconds, you have more time to cast the skill after using echo than with the glyph and cast it twice every ~45 seconds instead of every ~15.

Glyph of renewal is limited to skills, echo is not.

Stayfrosty · Oct 23, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Echo is one of tjhe few skills that can make great use of res sig, if you were in comp arenas and for whatever reason u were the last man standing, this works great

Arcane echo > Echo > res sig > the ecod'd Echo > res sig > res sig

3x res is fun ^_^

octaviancmb · Oct 23, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

echo also works on skills that recharge longer than 45 seconds, you have more time to cast the skill after using echo than with the glyph and cast it twice every ~45 seconds instead of every ~15.

While it is, indeed, true that you *can* use Echo on skills that recharge longer than 45 seconds, math says that once very 15 seconds is quicker than once every 50 (the target of Echo lasts 20 seconds, then Echo has to cool down for 30). For spells that require 15 or more seconds to recharge, Glyph is the winner.

twicky_kid · Oct 23, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

use echo for low recharge skills. other wise use glyph if 20+ sec recharge.

koneko · Oct 23, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

After the update, I started to prefer using Glyph of Renewal over the Echo/Arcane Echo combination, mainly because it let me keep Monk as my secondary instead of Mesmer (for res, emergency healing).

People in War Camp are still spamming for "omg echo nukers." I joined a group the other day and attempted to explain why I was going to be using GoR instead of the standard Echo/Arcane Echo combination and they proceeded to kick me and spam for a "real echo nuker" D:

Cartoonhero · Oct 23, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

yes my e/mo uses glyph of renewal, and i cast firestorm>GoR>meteor>meteor>firestorm. excellent for a large mob, or if some idiot aggros too many. nukage ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

People in War Camp are still spamming for "omg echo nukers." I joined a group the other day and attempted to explain why I was going to be using GoR instead of the standard Echo/Arcane Echo combination and they proceeded to kick me and spam for a "real echo nuker" D:

that was really dumb of them. imo, the GoR makes us better nukers than e/me. and being able to keep my monk secondary is great, because i can rez, and support heal as well. so, rez+support heal+echo nuke> e/me echo nuke.

super dooper · Oct 23, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

e/me can get off 5 meteor showers though :P i mean.. not that that's necessary, but..

Ollj · Oct 23, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

While it is, indeed, true that you *can* use Echo on skills that recharge longer than 45 seconds, math says that once very 15 seconds is quicker than once every 50 (the target of Echo lasts 20 seconds, then Echo has to cool down for 30). For spells that require 15 or more seconds to recharge, Glyph is the winner.

worthless if you do not have the energy for it or you get just drained for 5 seconds.

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

worthless if you do not have the energy for it or you get just drained for 5 seconds.

reminds me of the time our fire ele did absolutely... nothing... on an altar map, and after we lost miserably im like why didnt you do anything. got the most classic answer... "i was drained"

when i asked him if he got drained of all his 80+ energy at the same time hes like "yes"

...

lishi · Oct 23, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

After the update, I started to prefer using Glyph of Renewal over the Echo/Arcane Echo combination, mainly because it let me keep Monk as my secondary instead of Mesmer (for res, emergency healing).

People in War Camp are still spamming for "omg echo nukers." I joined a group the other day and attempted to explain why I was going to be using GoR instead of the standard Echo/Arcane Echo combination and they proceeded to kick me and spam for a "real echo nuker" D:

i prefer use archana echo and double attument,

it permet me to nuke the current mob and move to next without wait my mana reacharge

lishi · Oct 23, 2005, 11:46 PM // 23:46

you forgot OathShot as "echo skill"

Shwitz · Oct 23, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Just a note, cmb, in your original post you spoke about Echo'ing Ferocious Strike. You can't use Echo on Ferocious Strike unless you've got Arcane Mimicry on your skill bar too, as they're both elite. I'm sure you knew that. That'd be quite a skill bar though... Charm Animal, Comfort Animal, Ferocious Strike, Arcane Mimicry, and then the rest of your skill bar, plus having to make sure you're partied with someone using Echo... doesn't leave much room for the rest of your skills.

wheel · Oct 24, 2005, 12:14 AM // 00:14

uhhh. oath shot?

smurfhunter · Oct 24, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

a popular example is if you... use healing springs, oath shot, and then healing springs again. almost like glyph of renewal ^^

Ghost. · Oct 24, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

echo in my opinion

octaviancmb · Oct 24, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

you forgot OathShot as "echo skill"

Well, I didn't so much "forget" it as have no experience playing with it (I do not play Ranger primaries). I can't write effectively about Expertise skills, so I leave it up to you guys. I mean, the only thing I've ever done with Oath Shot other than cap it has been to add it as my Nec/Ran elite when I didn't need an elite so it could be copied by the Ran/Me.

So what kinds of builds does Oath Shot particularly improve for Ranger primaries? What sorts of skills work well with OS? Are there ways of getting OS to work *without* Expertise? Given the heavy use of blocking and evading enchantments and stances, how can you improve the chances of getting OS to work? When is it better to use one of the other "echo" elites instead of OS? What are the drawbacks of OS?

Sadly these questions have only theoretical answers for me since I lack a Ranger primary. I hope one of you will answer them.

cmb, he who is wholly ignorant of Expertise skills

twicky_kid · Oct 24, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

for primary rangers oath shot is their "copy" elite of choice. any other class will have to chose between echo or glyph.

warriors can use mimicry if the team is set up right, *cough* cleave.

teny10 · Oct 24, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Ok, here is how i nuke.
GoR/Meteor shower/GoEP/Meteor Shower/GoR/Firestorm/GoEP/Firestorm/GoR/Fireball/Fireball/Immolate

I /bowhead to whatever that's not dead.

BoonDockers · Oct 25, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Echo simply because I use arcane echo AND echo. The reason is sometimes I need to echo my "echo" and also you can't stack glyphs. Sometimes I echo a gylph of lesser energy which you can't do with GoR.